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piano fingering
22 Feb 2013 08:29 #8466
by andreasro
Replied by andreasro on topic piano fingering
And I do want you to feel that YOU, all here on the forum, are listened to (cause we all are, really), that's why I tried to answer your questions ( from my level of understanding) till Hellene posts here.
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22 Feb 2013 14:41 - 27 Feb 2013 03:05 #8468
by hellene
Back to the Mozart
Replied by hellene on topic piano fingering
Soft Mozart and Piano Technique/Polishing/ Fingering situatiom
I am going to be as detailed and precise as possible in answering these VERY IMPORTANT questions. Just asking you to fix my post if you find some errors in my writing
FINGERING.
Before Soft Mozart came into existence ALL the methods used in teaching piano were based on muscle memory.
Why is that?
There are a couple of essential videos that explain the problem:
In short: when teaching children to play on many similar-looking keys by reading the similar-looking notes, we force kids to develop their skills in a BLIND MODE. They look at notes and keys, but can't grasp them.
Blind people need muscle memory to move around.
This is why before we invented adds to see each key in connection with each note + offered a yellow line of focus, which supports learner's vision, THE ONLY WAY to start learning any piece was with finger numbers.
Even I, a classically trained musician, was uncomfortable at first watching my students using the wrong fingers. In fact, it drove me crazy!
Now after 10 years of teaching my students with Soft Mozart, I have a more "laid back" attitude towards fingering. I carefully watch just the numbers on the right and left sides of the monitor.
Here are some stages that EVERY BEGINNER passes during their learning process with Soft Mozart:
1. LOOKING FOR NOTES AND KEYS stage.
Yes! Even with all the visual aids, beginners still have to build their skill to grasp a note and find it on the keyboard.
At this stage you may make as many fingering suggestions as you want, but... the beginner simply won't have enough "room" to hear you.
The score at this stage is usually as this: missing many notes on the left and a very large amount of missing the timing on the right.
2. BUILDING EYE/HAND COORDINATION stage
If the timing on the right side of the screen is significantly decreased, it means that beginners are progressing to this stage. They make fewer and fewer mistakes, are capable of keeping their eyes on the music score most of the time, but still struggle with developing their fine motor skills, trying to cooperate with visual hints.
At this stage beginners are not ready for fingering suggestions either. Their minds are preoccupied with the goal of making their fingers more responsive to the notation.
At this point there are fewer and fewer mistakes on the left and the time figure is getting closer to the number of notes played correctly. The beginner is not just capable of caring about playing with the correct fingers, but still hardly hearing, is he playing music or just trying to press some keys?
You may compare this to learning how to drive a car the first time in your life: you have to look at all mirrors, control the gas and brake pedals - and... enjoy the view outside the windows
(to be continued)
I am going to be as detailed and precise as possible in answering these VERY IMPORTANT questions. Just asking you to fix my post if you find some errors in my writing
FINGERING.
Before Soft Mozart came into existence ALL the methods used in teaching piano were based on muscle memory.
Why is that?
There are a couple of essential videos that explain the problem:
In short: when teaching children to play on many similar-looking keys by reading the similar-looking notes, we force kids to develop their skills in a BLIND MODE. They look at notes and keys, but can't grasp them.
Blind people need muscle memory to move around.
This is why before we invented adds to see each key in connection with each note + offered a yellow line of focus, which supports learner's vision, THE ONLY WAY to start learning any piece was with finger numbers.
Even I, a classically trained musician, was uncomfortable at first watching my students using the wrong fingers. In fact, it drove me crazy!
Now after 10 years of teaching my students with Soft Mozart, I have a more "laid back" attitude towards fingering. I carefully watch just the numbers on the right and left sides of the monitor.
Here are some stages that EVERY BEGINNER passes during their learning process with Soft Mozart:
1. LOOKING FOR NOTES AND KEYS stage.
Yes! Even with all the visual aids, beginners still have to build their skill to grasp a note and find it on the keyboard.
At this stage you may make as many fingering suggestions as you want, but... the beginner simply won't have enough "room" to hear you.
The score at this stage is usually as this: missing many notes on the left and a very large amount of missing the timing on the right.
2. BUILDING EYE/HAND COORDINATION stage
If the timing on the right side of the screen is significantly decreased, it means that beginners are progressing to this stage. They make fewer and fewer mistakes, are capable of keeping their eyes on the music score most of the time, but still struggle with developing their fine motor skills, trying to cooperate with visual hints.
At this stage beginners are not ready for fingering suggestions either. Their minds are preoccupied with the goal of making their fingers more responsive to the notation.
At this point there are fewer and fewer mistakes on the left and the time figure is getting closer to the number of notes played correctly. The beginner is not just capable of caring about playing with the correct fingers, but still hardly hearing, is he playing music or just trying to press some keys?
You may compare this to learning how to drive a car the first time in your life: you have to look at all mirrors, control the gas and brake pedals - and... enjoy the view outside the windows
(to be continued)
Back to the Mozart
Last edit: 27 Feb 2013 03:05 by hellene.
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22 Feb 2013 15:07 - 27 Feb 2013 02:37 #8469
by hellene
Back to the Mozart
Replied by hellene on topic piano fingering
FINGERING. (Continued)
3. ADDING AUDIO PERCEPTION TO ESTABLISHED EYE/HAND COORDINATION.
When the number of correctly pressed keys and the amount of time are about the same, beginners have enough "room" in their minds already to process audio information more attentively.
At this point singing the melody of the piece in Solfeggio is very stimulating because it promotes rhythm in the beginner's performance. When learning at this stage, a student still doesn't have a music "flow" and plays some parts of the music faster (when the coordination is less challenging) or slower (when he/she is facing some difficulties).
4. EYE/HAND COORDINATION + AUDIO PERCEPTION + MEMORIZATION OF MUSIC.
When the number of correct notes is close to perfect and the timing drops below this amount, the beginner is at the stage, when it is time to make some suggestions about appropriate fingerings.
By getting to this point, you will be truly surprised that the beginner will figure out the fingering mostly on his/her own! This works especially well if your student has been practicing our scales and exercises as we suggest in our curriculum and guidelines!
WITH SOFT MOZART IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DEVELOP "BAD HABITS" IN MANAGING CORRECT FINGERS BECAUSE WE USE MANY DIFFERENT SENSES IN LEARNING AND DON'T PROMOTE DEPENDENCY FROM THE MUSCLE MEMORY.
Therefore, our students are more flexible in using different fingering positions and their fingers are not fastened to certain keys.
I have watched Soft Mozart students on stage and have noticed a very interesting quality of their performance: they never panic and forget their place because they can create many reasonable and professional combinations since they are free to use all their senses.
You may compare it with people who fluently speak a language and give a speech - as opposed to people who have just memorized couple of phrases and are trying to recite them in front of audience.
(to be continued)
3. ADDING AUDIO PERCEPTION TO ESTABLISHED EYE/HAND COORDINATION.
When the number of correctly pressed keys and the amount of time are about the same, beginners have enough "room" in their minds already to process audio information more attentively.
At this point singing the melody of the piece in Solfeggio is very stimulating because it promotes rhythm in the beginner's performance. When learning at this stage, a student still doesn't have a music "flow" and plays some parts of the music faster (when the coordination is less challenging) or slower (when he/she is facing some difficulties).
4. EYE/HAND COORDINATION + AUDIO PERCEPTION + MEMORIZATION OF MUSIC.
When the number of correct notes is close to perfect and the timing drops below this amount, the beginner is at the stage, when it is time to make some suggestions about appropriate fingerings.
By getting to this point, you will be truly surprised that the beginner will figure out the fingering mostly on his/her own! This works especially well if your student has been practicing our scales and exercises as we suggest in our curriculum and guidelines!
WITH SOFT MOZART IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DEVELOP "BAD HABITS" IN MANAGING CORRECT FINGERS BECAUSE WE USE MANY DIFFERENT SENSES IN LEARNING AND DON'T PROMOTE DEPENDENCY FROM THE MUSCLE MEMORY.
Therefore, our students are more flexible in using different fingering positions and their fingers are not fastened to certain keys.
I have watched Soft Mozart students on stage and have noticed a very interesting quality of their performance: they never panic and forget their place because they can create many reasonable and professional combinations since they are free to use all their senses.
You may compare it with people who fluently speak a language and give a speech - as opposed to people who have just memorized couple of phrases and are trying to recite them in front of audience.
(to be continued)
Back to the Mozart
Last edit: 27 Feb 2013 02:37 by hellene.
The following user(s) said Thank You: the Moon
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22 Feb 2013 15:29 - 27 Feb 2013 02:17 #8470
by hellene
Back to the Mozart
Replied by hellene on topic piano fingering
FINGERING AND SOFT MOZART
POLISHING STAGES IN PLAYING PIANO PIECES
5. MEMORIZATION. ALL PREVIOUS SKILLS + SPEECH MEMORY
After getting stable results with almost no mistakes on the left and timing that is close to 0 (don't try to have 0!!! You are not a machine!) it is time to start memorizing the piece.
My students memorize piano pieces in segments or as a whole, with separate hands and with both.
They first play R and RH, L and LH and P with PH.
To make the memorization painless and more effective, I often ask them to sing the note names with the "sounds of music" or solfeggio. Such enhancement helps the beginners to have another point of support, which is the speech memory.
6. WORKING ON PIANO TECHNIQUE OR A SONG'S FLOW
The goal of this stage is to teach beginners to keep a steady rhythm and build the song's flow.
First, I do it in class by pressing the metronome or the rhythm section and play with my student together like this:
But now we are developing the TEACHING VIDEOS section, where you can find your piece, place it in front of you and start practicing by follow the lead. Here is our student Rachel working on "The Entertainer" using our video with the metronome:
7. POLISHING THE PIANO PIECE FOR PERFORMANCE
If you do not have a piano teacher, we created the videos, where you can learn proper artistic playing with us. Well, even if you DO have a piano teacher, our videos are still very helpful!
Here is Rachel learning how to play "Midnight Blues" artistically:
You will find it FUN to find many piano players on You Tube performing your piece. You can get some new ideas on how to improve your performance and become creative in interpreting your music.
My little information about sheet music will be a little later in this topic
POLISHING STAGES IN PLAYING PIANO PIECES
5. MEMORIZATION. ALL PREVIOUS SKILLS + SPEECH MEMORY
After getting stable results with almost no mistakes on the left and timing that is close to 0 (don't try to have 0!!! You are not a machine!) it is time to start memorizing the piece.
My students memorize piano pieces in segments or as a whole, with separate hands and with both.
They first play R and RH, L and LH and P with PH.
To make the memorization painless and more effective, I often ask them to sing the note names with the "sounds of music" or solfeggio. Such enhancement helps the beginners to have another point of support, which is the speech memory.
6. WORKING ON PIANO TECHNIQUE OR A SONG'S FLOW
The goal of this stage is to teach beginners to keep a steady rhythm and build the song's flow.
First, I do it in class by pressing the metronome or the rhythm section and play with my student together like this:
But now we are developing the TEACHING VIDEOS section, where you can find your piece, place it in front of you and start practicing by follow the lead. Here is our student Rachel working on "The Entertainer" using our video with the metronome:
7. POLISHING THE PIANO PIECE FOR PERFORMANCE
If you do not have a piano teacher, we created the videos, where you can learn proper artistic playing with us. Well, even if you DO have a piano teacher, our videos are still very helpful!
Here is Rachel learning how to play "Midnight Blues" artistically:
You will find it FUN to find many piano players on You Tube performing your piece. You can get some new ideas on how to improve your performance and become creative in interpreting your music.
My little information about sheet music will be a little later in this topic
Back to the Mozart
Last edit: 27 Feb 2013 02:17 by hellene.
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- Mel02
- Visitor
22 Feb 2013 19:52 #8481
by Mel02
Replied by Mel02 on topic piano fingering
Thank you so much, Helene, for answering the question with so much detail and attention. Really appreciate your time and your in-depth.
Some trivial comments: Should all what you write be input in a book or some documents, so we would all know what to be expected to see when using the software? ( I will collect all these guides if they are not documented anywhere.) Would it be nice if the teaching video would be also in software package, since sometime the internet for playing video is quite slow.
Also, before my asking again, I want to say that I think that Helene's books really pointed out quite somethings I missed and I am thinking the soft mozart would be very helpful of filled these blanks and help to build the basic block/elements solidly so eventually kids can be successful. I would think that I am still very rough on understanding, and believe there is something more there, so I will keep digging and digging.
Back to original topic about finger -- or not just finger, about final artistically play. I found some terms -for example: " Posture, Hand Position (bud, bloom, perch), Firm Nail Joints, Wrist releases, 5 Finger Patterns in All Major/Minor Keys, Mixed Articulation, 2 Octave White Key Major Scales & Arpeggios with dynamic shape, Forearm Drops, Consistent Legato, Wrist Staccato (early independence between the hands), Phrase Shaping, Voicing/Balance Between the Hands, Voicing a Chord at End of Piece." When we say artistically, do we mean by this, so do we mean that we are going to introduce it at the final stage-- performance stage. And it is for every song the child play, when they play it very fluently, then polish it with what these piano technique can apply.
Can then aside each piece in teaching video, the artistic point/technique and key points be summarized in text? I am not so keen to look for things at shopping (so video).
And also side-away again, previously, there was an explanation of Academic level 7, do we have a guideline for each level? Shall we have a kind of map? There is some reading material we used, it has a simple map, listed the books on the path to final goal, it is very easy for both grown-up and kids to follow and clearly know we are. Should we have a kind of map, no need of fancy, but brief, just to help us to know where we are and where we can go next and keep us motivated for the next.
Some trivial comments: Should all what you write be input in a book or some documents, so we would all know what to be expected to see when using the software? ( I will collect all these guides if they are not documented anywhere.) Would it be nice if the teaching video would be also in software package, since sometime the internet for playing video is quite slow.
Also, before my asking again, I want to say that I think that Helene's books really pointed out quite somethings I missed and I am thinking the soft mozart would be very helpful of filled these blanks and help to build the basic block/elements solidly so eventually kids can be successful. I would think that I am still very rough on understanding, and believe there is something more there, so I will keep digging and digging.
Back to original topic about finger -- or not just finger, about final artistically play. I found some terms -for example: " Posture, Hand Position (bud, bloom, perch), Firm Nail Joints, Wrist releases, 5 Finger Patterns in All Major/Minor Keys, Mixed Articulation, 2 Octave White Key Major Scales & Arpeggios with dynamic shape, Forearm Drops, Consistent Legato, Wrist Staccato (early independence between the hands), Phrase Shaping, Voicing/Balance Between the Hands, Voicing a Chord at End of Piece." When we say artistically, do we mean by this, so do we mean that we are going to introduce it at the final stage-- performance stage. And it is for every song the child play, when they play it very fluently, then polish it with what these piano technique can apply.
Can then aside each piece in teaching video, the artistic point/technique and key points be summarized in text? I am not so keen to look for things at shopping (so video).
And also side-away again, previously, there was an explanation of Academic level 7, do we have a guideline for each level? Shall we have a kind of map? There is some reading material we used, it has a simple map, listed the books on the path to final goal, it is very easy for both grown-up and kids to follow and clearly know we are. Should we have a kind of map, no need of fancy, but brief, just to help us to know where we are and where we can go next and keep us motivated for the next.
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- Mel02
- Visitor
25 Feb 2013 19:39 #8499
by Mel02
Replied by Mel02 on topic piano fingering
Hi Helene, I keep checking the posts to see if your sheet music posts -- as mentioned in the your post -- come out.
Also, I am reading the stages again and again, it is very insightful.
Also, I am reading the stages again and again, it is very insightful.
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